"Jereo izy": resadresaka nifanaovana tamin'i Anna Starobinets

Psikolojia: Nahoana ny dokotera Rosiana no nanao toy izany tamin'ny fanontaniana momba ny fanalan-jaza? Tsy ny toeram-pitsaboana rehetra ve no manao izany eto amintsika? Sa tsy ara-dalàna ny fanalan-jaza tara? Inona no mahatonga ny fifandraisana hafahafa toy izany?

Anna Starobinets: Any Rosia, ny toeram-pitsaboana manokana ihany no mirotsaka amin'ny fampitsaharana ny fitondrana vohoka noho ny antony ara-pitsaboana amin'ny tara. Mazava ho azy fa ara-dalàna izany, fa amin'ny toerana voatondro ihany. Ohatra, ao amin'ny hopitaly areti-mifindra mitovy amin'ny Sokolina Gora, izay tena tia mampitahotra ny vehivavy bevohoka ao amin'ny toeram-pitsaboana antenatal.

Manao veloma ny ankizy iray: ny tantaran'i Anna Starobinets

Ny vehivavy iray miatrika ny filàna hanajanona ny fitondrana vohoka amin'ny daty manaraka dia tsy manana fahafahana hisafidy toeram-pitsaboana mifanaraka aminy. Fa kosa, ny safidy dia matetika tsy mihoatra ny roa manokana toerana.

As for the reaction of doctors: it is connected with the fact that in Russia there is absolutely no moral and ethical protocol for working with such women. That is, roughly speaking, subconsciously any doctor — whether ours or German — feels a desire to distance himself from such a situation. None of the doctors want to take delivery of a dead fetus. And none of the women do not want to give birth to a dead child.

Ny vehivavy ihany no mila izany. Ary ho an'ny dokotera izay tsara vintana hiasa amin'ny toeram-pitsaboana tsy misy fiatoana (izany hoe, ny ankamaroan'ny dokotera), dia tsy ilaina izany. Ny zavatra lazain'izy ireo amin'ny vehivavy amin'ny fanamaivanana sy ny fahasosorana sasany, tsy misy fanivanana ny teny sy ny tonony. Satria tsy misy protocole etika.

Marihina eto ihany koa fa indraindray, raha ny fantatra, dia tsy fantatry ny dokotera akory fa ao amin’ny toeram-pitsaboany dia mbola misy ny mety hisian’ny fahatapahana toy izany. Ohatra, ao amin'ny afovoan-Moscou. Kulakov, nilazana aho fa “tsy miraharaha zavatra toy izany izy ireo.” Omaly ihany aho no nifandray tamin’ny mpitantana ity foibe ity ary nampandrenesina fa tamin’ny taona 2012 dia mbola nanao izany izy ireo.

Na izany aza, tsy toa an'i Alemaina, izay misy rafitra natsangana mba hanampiana marary ao anatin'ny krizy ary ny mpiasa tsirairay dia manana protocol mazava amin'ny hetsika amin'ny tranga toy izany, tsy manana rafitra toy izany isika. Noho izany, ny dokotera ultrasound manam-pahaizana manokana amin'ny pathologies bevohoka dia mety tsy mahafantatra fa ny klinikany dia mandray anjara amin'ny fampitsaharana ireo bevohoka pathological ireo, ary ny lehibeny dia resy lahatra fa tsy mila mahafantatra momba izany izy, satria ny sehatry ny matihanina dia ultrasound.

Sao dia misy toromarika mangina mba hanakanana ny vehivavy tsy hanapaka ny fitondrana vohoka mba hampitomboana ny tahan'ny fiterahana?

Oh no. Against. In this situation, a Russian woman experiences incredible psychological pressure from doctors, she is actually forced to have an abortion. Many women told me about this, and one of them shares this experience in my book — in its second, journalistic, part. She tried to insist on her right to report a pregnancy with a lethal pathology of the fetus, give birth to a child in the presence of her husband, say goodbye and bury. As a result, she gave birth at home, with a huge risk to her life and, as it were, outside the law.

Any Alemaina, na dia ao anatin'ny toe-javatra misy zaza tsy mahavelona aza, tsy lazaina intsony ny zaza iray miaraka amin'ny Syndrome Down mitovy, ny vehivavy dia omena safidy foana na hanao tatitra momba ny fitondrana vohoka toy izany na hampitsahatra izany. Raha ny momba an’i Down, dia atolotra ihany koa izy hitsidika ireo fianakaviana misy ankizy manana aretina toy izany, ary ampandrenesina ihany koa fa misy ireo maniry ny hanangana zaza toy izany.

Ary raha misy kilema tsy mifanaraka amin'ny fiainana, dia lazaina ilay vehivavy alemà fa ny fitondrana vohoka dia hotanterahina toy ny bevohoka rehetra, ary aorian'ny fiterahana dia homena paroasy mitokana izy sy ny fianakaviany ary afaka manao veloma ny zaza. Ery. Ary koa, noho ny fangatahany, dia antsoina hoe pretra.

In Russia, a woman does not have a choice. Nobody wants a pregnancy like this. She is invited to go through «one step at a time» for an abortion. Without family and priests. Moreover, even in the case of non-lethal, but severe pathologies, the model of behavior of doctors is usually the same: «Urgently go for an interruption, then you will give birth to a healthy one.»

Nahoana ianao no nanapa-kevitra ny ho any Alemaina?

Naniry ny handeha any amin'ny firenena rehetra misy ny fampitsaharana amin'ny fotoana farany amin'ny fomba maha-olona sy sivilizasiona aho. Ankoatra izany, zava-dehibe tamiko ny nananako namana na havana teto amin'ity firenena ity. Noho izany, ny safidy dia tamin'ny farany avy amin'ny firenena efatra: Frantsa, Hongria, Alemaina ary Israely.

Tany Frantsa sy Hongria dia nanda ahy izy ireo, satria. araka ny lalàn'izy ireo, ny fanalan-jaza tara dia tsy azo atao amin'ny mpizaha tany raha tsy manana fahazoan-dàlana hipetraka na zom-pirenena. Teo amin'ny Isiraely, vonona ny hanaiky ahy izy ireo, saingy nampitandrina izy ireo fa haharitra iray volana, fara fahakeliny, ny fe-potoam-piasana. Tao amin'ny toeram-pitsaboana Berlin Charité dia nilaza izy ireo fa tsy misy fameperana ho an'ny vahiny, ary hatao haingana sy amin'ny maha-olombelona ny zava-drehetra. Dia nandeha tany izahay.

Don’t you think that for some women it is much easier to survive the loss of a «fetus» and not a «baby»? And that parting, funerals, talking about a dead child, correspond to a certain mentality and are not suitable for everyone here. Do you think this practice will take root in our country? And does it really help women relieve themselves of guilt after such an experience?

Now it doesn’t seem to. After the experience I had in Germany. Initially, I proceeded from exactly the same social attitudes that practically everything in our country comes from: that in no case should you look at a dead baby, otherwise he will then appear in nightmares all his life. That you should not bury him, because «why do you need such a young, children’s grave.»

But about the terminological, let’s say, acute angle — «fetus» or «baby» — I stumbled immediately. Not even a sharp corner, but rather a sharp spike or nail. It is very painful to hear when your child, although unborn, but absolutely real for you, moving in you, is called a fetus. Like he’s some kind of pumpkin or lemon. It doesn’t comfort, it hurts.

As for the rest — for example, the answer to the question, whether to look at it after the birth or not — my position changed from minus to plus after the birth itself. And I am very grateful to the German doctors for the fact that throughout the day they gently but persistently offered me to “look at him”, reminded me that I still have such an opportunity. There is no mentality. There are universal human reactions. In Germany, they were studied by professionals — psychologists, doctors — and made part of statistics. But we have not studied them and proceed from antediluvian grandmother’s conjectures.

Yes, it is easier for a woman if she said goodbye to the child, thus expressing respect and love for the person who was and who is gone. To a very small — but human. Not for pumpkin. Yes, it’s worse for a woman if she turned away, didn’t look, didn’t say goodbye, left “as soon as possible to forget.” She feels guilty. She does not find peace. That’s when she gets nightmares. In Germany, I talked a lot about this topic with specialists who work with women who have lost a pregnancy or a newborn baby. Please note that these losses are not divided into pumpkins and non-pumpkins. The approach is the same.

Nahoana no tsy azo lavina ny fanalan-jaza ny vehivavy iray any Rosia? Raha araka ny tondro izany dia tafiditra ao anatin'ny fiantohana ny opération sa tsia?

Afaka mandà izy ireo raha tsy misy famantarana ara-pitsaboana na ara-tsosialy, fa faniriana fotsiny. Saingy matetika ny vehivavy tsy manana famantarana toy izany dia ao anatin'ny trimester faharoa ary tsy manana faniriana hanao izany. Na te hanan-janaka izy ireo, na raha tsy izany, dia efa nanala zaza talohan’ny 12 herinandro. Ary eny, maimaim-poana ny fomba fiatoana. Fa amin'ny toerana manokana ihany. Ary, mazava ho azy, tsy misy efitrano fanaovam-beloma.

Inona no tena nanaitra anao indrindra tamin'ireo fanehoan-kevitra mampihoron-koditra tao amin'ny forum sy media sosialy nosoratanao (nampitahainao tamin'ny voalavo tao anaty lakaly)?

I was struck by the total absence of a culture of empathy, a culture of sympathy. That is, in fact, there is no «ethical protocol» at all levels. Neither doctors nor patients have it. It simply does not exist in society.

Since we are Puritans, for the sin of copulation, a dirty woman is entitled to suffering — from sexual infections to childbirth. And since we are Sparta, we must go through these sufferings without even uttering a word. Hence the classic remark of a midwife at childbirth: “I liked it under a peasant — now don’t yell.” Screams and tears are for the weak. And there are more genetic mutations.

An embryo with a mutation is a culling, a spoiled fetus. The woman who wears it is of poor quality. Spartans don’t like them. She is not supposed to have sympathy, but a harsh rebuke and an abortion. Because we are strict, but fair: do not whine, shame on you, wipe your snot, lead the right way of life — and you will give birth to another, healthy one.

Inona no torohevitra omenao ho an'ireo vehivavy voatery nanapaka vohoka na niharan-doza? Ahoana no hivelomana amin'izany? Mba tsy hanome tsiny ny tenanao sy tsy ho latsaka anaty fahaketrahana lalina?

Here, of course, it is most logical to advise you to seek help from a professional psychologist. But, as I said a little higher, it is very difficult to find it. Not to mention that this pleasure is expensive. In the second part of the book “Look at him”, I talk exactly on this topic — how to survive — with Christine Klapp, MD, head physician of the Charité-Virchow obstetrics clinic in Berlin, which specializes in late pregnancy terminations, and performs not only gynecological, but and psychological counseling for their patients and their partners. Dr. Klapp gives a lot of interesting advice.

For example, she is convinced that a man needs to be included in the “mourning process”, but it should be borne in mind that he recovers faster after the loss of a child, and also has difficulty enduring round-the-clock mourning. However, you can easily arrange with him to devote to a lost child, say, a couple of hours a week. A man is capable of talking during these two hours only on this topic — and he will do it honestly and sincerely. Thus, the couple will not be separated.

Saingy ho antsika izany rehetra izany, mazava ho azy, ampahany amin'ny fomba fiainana ara-tsosialy sy fianakaviana vahiny. Amin'ny fombantsika, manoro hevitra ny vehivavy aho mba hihaino ny fony voalohany indrindra: raha mbola tsy vonona ny "manadino sy miaina" ny fo, dia tsy ilaina izany. Manan-jo halahelo ianao, na inona na inona eritreretin'ny hafa momba izany.

Unfortunately, we do not have professional psychological support groups at maternity hospitals, however, in my opinion, it is better to share experiences with non-professional groups than not to share at all. For example, on Facebook (an extremist organization banned in Russia) for some time now, sorry for the tautology, there is a closed group “Heart is open”. There is quite adequate moderation, which screens out trolls and boors (which is rare for our social networks), and there are many women who have experienced or are experiencing loss.

Heverinao ve fa fanapahan-kevitry ny vehivavy ihany ny fanapahan-kevitra hitaiza zaza? Ary tsy mpiara-miasa roa? Rehefa dinihina tokoa, ny ankizivavy matetika manapaka ny vohoka noho ny fangatahan`ny namany, vadiny. Heverinao ve fa manana zo amin'izany ny lehilahy? Ahoana no iatrehana izany any amin'ny firenena hafa?

Of course, a man does not have the legal right to demand that a woman have an abortion. A woman can resist the pressure and refuse. And can succumb — and agree. It is clear that a man in any country is capable of exerting psychological pressure on a woman. The difference between conditional Germany and Russia in this regard is two things.

Voalohany, ny fahasamihafana eo amin'ny fitaizana sy ny kolontsaina. Ny Eoropeana tandrefana dia nampianarina hatramin'ny fahazazana mba hiaro ny sisin-taniny manokana sy hanaja ny hafa. Tena mailo izy ireo amin'ny fanodinkodinana sy fanerena ara-tsaina.

Secondly, the difference in social guarantees. Roughly speaking, a Western woman, even if she does not work, but is entirely dependent on her man (which is extremely rare), has a kind of “safety cushion” in case she is left alone with a child. She can be sure that she will receive social benefits, on which one can really live, albeit not very luxuriously, deductions from the salary of the father of the child, as well as other bonuses for a person in a crisis situation — from a psychologist to a social worker.

Indrisy anefa, ny vehivavy Rosiana dia tena mora tohina amin'ny toe-javatra izay ny mpiara-miasa tsy maniry ny zaza, fa izy.

Ny fanapahan-kevitra farany, mazava ho azy, dia mijanona amin'ilay vehivavy. Na izany aza, amin'ny safidy "pro-life" dia tsy maintsy mahatsapa izy fa mitana andraikitra bebe kokoa noho ny vehivavy alemana manana fepetra, fa tsy hanana satroboninahitra ara-tsosialy izy, ary ny alimony, raha misy, dia mampihomehy. .

Raha ny lafiny ara-dalàna: Nilaza tamiko ny dokotera alemà fa raha ny fampitsaharana ny fitondrana vohoka dia lazao, noho ny Syndrome Down, dia manana toromarika hanara-maso tsara ny mpivady. Ary, raha misy ny ahiahy fa ny vehivavy manapa-kevitra ny hanala zaza noho ny fanerena ny vadiny, dia mamaly avy hatrany, mandray andraikitra, manasa psikology, manazava amin`ny vehivavy ny tombontsoa ara-tsosialy izay izy sy ny zaza ao am-bohoka manan-jo hahazo raha toa ka teraka. Raha lazaina amin'ny teny iray dia manao izay rehetra azo atao izy ireo mba hialana amin'izany fanerena izany ary hanome azy fahafahana handray fanapahan-kevitra mahaleo tena.

Taiza ianao no niteraka? Any Rosia? Ary nanampy azy ireo hiatrika ny trauma ve ny nahaterahany?

The eldest daughter Sasha was already there when I lost the child. I gave birth to her in Russia, in the Lyubertsy maternity hospital, in 2004. She gave birth for a fee, «under the contract.» My girlfriend and my ex-partner were present at the birth (Sasha Sr., the father of Sasha Jr., could not be present, he then lived in Latvia and everything was, as they say now, “difficult”), during the contractions we were provided with a special ward with shower and a big rubber ball.

Tena tsara sy malalaka izany rehetra izany, ny hany fiarahabana avy amin'ny Sovietika taloha dia ramatoa antitra mpanadio miaraka amin'ny siny sy mop, izay indroa niditra tao amin'ity idyll anay ity, nanasa mafy ny tany teo ambaninay ary nimenomenona mangina tamin'ny tenany. : “Jereo izay noforoniny! Ny olon-tsotra miteraka mandry.

I didn’t have epidural anesthesia during childbirth, because, supposedly, it’s bad for the heart (later, a doctor I knew told me that just at that time in the Lyubertsy house something was wrong with anesthesia — what exactly was “not right”, I do not know). When my daughter was born, the doctor tried to slip a pair of scissors into my ex-boyfriend and said, «Daddy’s supposed to cut the umbilical cord.» He fell into a stupor, but my friend saved the situation — she took the scissors from him and cut something there herself. After that, we were given a family room, where all four of us — including a newborn — and spent the night. In general, the impression was good.

Niteraka ny zanako faralahy, Leva, tany Letonia, tao amin’ny hopitaly fiterahana tsara tarehy Jurmala, niaraka tamin’ny vadiko malalako. Ireo fahaterahana ireo dia voalaza ao amin’ny faran’ny boky Jereo Azy. Ary, mazava ho azy, ny fahaterahan'ny zazalahy iray dia nanampy ahy be dia be.

There is such a thing as «empty hands». When you are expecting a child, but for some reason you lose it, you feel with your soul and body around the clock that your hands are empty, that they do not have what should be there — your baby. The son filled this void with himself, purely physically. But the one before him, I will never forget. And I don’t want to forget.